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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Were they really? What, Wharf Rat?

Actually, I'm against indecency in music lyrics, too. Of course, then you have to define "indecency," and a big part of true lyrical indecency is "painful you-gotta-be-kiddingness," and then ... well, on the one hand, banning that would get rid of most rap and pop, and it would also take care of the problem of having to hear Brent songs. But the cost would be too high; we'd lose so much of the fun of Brent bashing. And where would it leave LLR?

Btw, interesting Barlow link. I had no idea he may well have coined the notion of digital natives/digital immigrants. Such a great writer ... and then there's LLR :-)

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-07-21 05:40:44

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Yeah apparently Wharf Rat is the first place where you can clearly hear it. Jefferson Airplane claims that "Up against the wall, motherfucker!" is on the Volunteers album, but according to the interview with Hunter I think I'm remembering this from, "You can't actually hear those words on that record" and I can confirm for myself that I've never been able to hear it. I went on a month long road trip with a guy who pretty much only listened to Jefferson Airplane so I got to know "Volunteers" a little bit too well.

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Poster: WillCo Date: Jul 21, 2011 3:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Please remind me, someone, which show(s) had Jerry singing "some other person's crime". I think it must have been on one of the early Dick's Picks, but I haven't heard it for many years (with each Wharf Rat I listen to I wait with baited breath for the line, and then .... nah not this one).

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jul 21, 2011 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

"Yeah apparently Wharf Rat is the first place where you can clearly hear it."

Maybe it was brought to the front more when the album came out on CD, but the line "Up against the wall, motherfucker" is absolutely unmistakable around 3:27 of "We Can Be Together", the opening track on Volunteers.

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jul 21, 2011 9:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

Interesting, I can hear it when I listen to the song on Youtube, but I could never hear it on the tape my friend had back when we went on the road trip. Remastering might be involved. I found the exact Hunter quote:

"And you know what, that's the first the that the F word actually ever was used on a recording. But-the legend is that the Jefferson Airplane used it in "Up Against the Wall" and it's printed in the lyrics, I believe, but you go ahead and play that record, and see if you can hear that word. You can't hear that word. But they covered for us. The perception was that they had said it, and although as I said you can't hear it, so we were covered in a way. We could go right ahead and say it then. And there we go. We did, as I said, the first sixteen-track record, and we're the first ones to use the F word. What a claim to fame!"

- Robert Hunter, taken from 1988 David Gans interview in Conversations with the Dead, p. 282-283

This post was modified by bkidwell on 2011-07-21 16:35:09

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jul 21, 2011 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

Unfortunately my old vinyl copy is just a memory so I have no way to compare, but I agree that it could easily have been brought out with the jump to CD. It's also possible, of course, that Hunter is engaging in a little legend-spinning of his own, as this interview was nearly two decades after the fact. Like many aging sports heroes, I've noticed that the recollections of a lot of musical icons are frequently more colorful than they are accurate. Ain't hatin', just sayin'.

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Jul 21, 2011 10:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

i believe THE WHO belong to this club.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 21, 2011 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

FWIW, I have the old original release and it defn is NOT on my copy either...they did it live, but not on the version I heard "officially".

Of course, I cannot currently access this version, but this is my distinct recollection, and we even discussed that they "wimped" if you follow...in the 70s.

But, as SB points out, aging memories and all...? Mine and Hunters and Katner?

I do want to support what BKid is purporting to be the case though...

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jul 21, 2011 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

what I said is well covered in this thread

This post was modified by fenario80 on 2011-07-21 22:31:23

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 21, 2011 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

i think RH might have forgotten an even more telling line from 'We Can Be Together', earlier in the song:

We are all outlaws in the eyes of America
In order to survive we steal cheat lie forge FUCK hide and deal

and i defintely remember hearing it on my vinyl (purchased early '80s); JA more than any other group from that place and time, pushed the envelope when it came to lyrics

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Poster: vapors Date: Jul 21, 2011 12:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

For what it’s worth...
From wiki: "We Can Be Together" is the B-side of the "Volunteers" 45 and the first track on Volunteers. The song's music and lyrics were written by Paul Kantner. Kantner was inspired by the Black Panther Party's use of the phrase "Up against the wall, motherfucker" and included it in the chorus.[1] The Airplane performed "We Can Be Together" uncensored on The Dick Cavett Show on August 19, 1969.
While the word "motherfucker" was indeed sung and not censored on the 45, it was mixed lower in the mix as compared to the LP mix, which had no volume manipulation and presented the song "un-buried".

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 21, 2011 3:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arb, Fenario & Dan

Ah, perhaps it was on the basis of the 45, that would've been rec'ing airtime in my youth, upon which we formed our "they wimped!" or some such? I searched and realize I do not own the orig album or 45, but may have lost them over the yrs...

In any case, I still have the distinct memory (but this counts for less and less these days) of my thinking at the time "it's NOT on this ONE" but from what folks have chimed in with, my particular "one", may have been only one of a handful...I defn agree things might have been changed over the yrs as well.

Recall the Moby Grape album with the obvious "finger" on the cover (the hand on the washboard for those that know of what I speak) which was quickly removed after the initial release (my brothers proudly displayed both album and a poster, with finger, prior to the switch-a-roo...). Don't have that one anymore either.

Damn.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 21, 2011 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arb, Fenario & Dan

hmm, perhaps as vapors posted below, you recall the 45, not the LP? i DO have the original pressing of Volunteers, and just listened right now, and it's very audible, both the lyric that i posted above, and the 'up against the wall, motherfuckers'

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 22, 2011 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arb, Fenario & Dan

Cool; they deserve the credit then, as you note.

Seems somewhat naive looking back on it all these days, but I recall my brothers wearing Blk Panther pins (showed the panther, and said "honorary member" or some such). Not unlike the DEAD's initial fascination with Hell's Angels I suppose. And just generic "against the Man" endorsements for any and all organized groups, regardless of subsequent track records vis-a-vis human rights, blah, blah, blah.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 22, 2011 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arb, Fenario & Dan

B., just to add add'l info, i pulled out the album insert this morning, with the printed lyrics, and interestingly enough, the 'FUCK' word is CENSORED on the printed lyrics, rendered thus:

"In order to survive we steal lie forge FRED hide and deal"

"Up against the wall FRED"

poor Fred

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jul 21, 2011 9:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

LLR was SUCH a better song before Bobby started lacing his end-rap with f-bombs. I draw the line on that song at about 1981 just to avoid them; of course, I feel the same way about Estimated - when the high-pitched squealing starts, I'm outta there

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj6xEeBsFfI

As Kevn Kinney used to say before the encore:

Tip your bartenders, tip your friend, Tipper Gore, cook my eggs. Life is too short for cheap wine.

And does anyone actually prefer Ratdog? To what? The Spin Doctors?